Committee stage in the Lords
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Baroness WalmsleyLiberal Democrat- Quote
- My Lords, I shall speak also to Amendments 265 to 269, which are grouped with Amendment 244. The Bill does not detail the specifics of Ofqual’s reporting structure and performance measurement. If schools, colleges and awarding bodies knew of Ofqual's priorities each year, they could plan their qualifications accordingly. This group of amendments would provide for that and add further checks and balances on Ofqual's activities, providing for greater scrutiny and accountability of its performance—a matter which your Lordships on all sides of the House have said is desirable. Amendment 244 to Clause 126, which is about general duties, requires Ofqual to, “establish specific and measurable success criteria for each of its objectives”. The next set of amendments is about Ofqual's annual report. Amendment 265 requires the annual report to state how Ofqual intends to fulfil the criteria over the next 12 months. Amendment 266 relates to Clause 138, if it were to remain in the Bill. If the Secretary of State had used the rather controversial power to make a determination, the amendment would require Ofqual to report that in its annual report, so that the Secretary of State’s actions are open and accountable for all to see. Amendment 267 requires similar reporting in the annual report if the fee-capping power has been used. Amendment 268 requires information about consultation that Ofqual has undertaken during the previous year. Amendment 268A requires Ofqual to take into consideration significant reports on its performance. We would expect Ofqual to state how it was to improve, if that were necessary—if there were some sort of criticism in the report. Amendment 269 asks the organisation to consult the public on its plans and publish and lay before Parliament an annual plan with its main objectives and priorities for the coming year. All that may seem very prescriptive, but given that we on these Benches want to remove Clause 138, and given that the Government are resisting that rather strongly, we feel that it is important to lay out in the amendments how Parliament expects Ofqual to behave in relation to transparency and accountability. That would give Parliament the opportunity to question what is happening if necessary; of course, it cannot do that unless it has the information. This group of amendments would give it that information. None of the things that we are asking for is something that Ofqual would not want to do anyway, but it is important that we lay such things out clearly when we are setting up this system for the examination regulator. I beg to move.
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Lord LucasConservative- Quote
- I have tabled Amendment 262 in this group, which asks that: “Ofqual shall publish on the internet a summary of all judgements and determinations that it makes, and of the reasons for them”. It is very important that Ofqual should seek to establish in public a detailed series of precedents and explanations of the way that it is working: first, because it should be transparent; secondly, because such transparency is vital in creating public confidence in the body; and, thirdly, because only by seeing exactly how Ofqual is reaching its decisions and on what basis it is seeking to judge qualifications will the awarding bodies have the confidence that they need to be able to innovate and bring forward new and interesting variations on their existing qualifications.
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Baroness VermaConservative- Quote
- My Lords, I shall be brief. We support the amendment and would like to see Ofqual fulfil its functions in a transparent and accountable manner. In order to restore public faith in the examination system, people must be able to see clearly the functions and actions of the body in charge of regulating examination standards. Furthermore, it is right that Ofqual should be held to account for any failure or perceived failure in its duties. Enhanced transparency will ensure that Ofqual is held to high standards, which should make sure that our examination system is, once again, a vigorous and robust structure that displays the hard work and dedication of the students to the best possible advantage. I hope that the Minister will give a favourable reply to these amendments.
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- My Lords, I am delighted to respond to this short debate. I was interested to hear what the noble Baroness, Lady Walmsley, had to say in introducing this debate. At times, it was difficult to hear her because when noble Lords leave the Chamber after Questions it can be very noisy. I support what the noble Baronesses, Lady Walmsley and Lady Verma, said about the importance of Ofqual being held to account and the key role that Parliament will play. Ofqual will want to fulfil the aspirations set out in the noble Baroness’s amendments. We all accept the principle that Ofqual should be independent of Ministers and accountable to Parliament. The Bill delivers that. Its provisions are modelled on those for Ofsted. It is tempting for noble Lords on all sides of the House to think of things that seem important now and write into the legislation that Ofqual should report on them. I appreciate that that is not the kind of game that we are in, but I appreciate the thought that has gone into these amendments. We should resist that temptation to create a tick-box mentality that risks Ofqual having to report on the detail of A, B and C, even if, at a later date, the X, Y and Z are more important, although I think the noble Baroness is driving at a higher principle than that. We should instead trust that the accountability arrangements will truly hold Ofqual to account for those things that are really important at the time. Amendments 244 and 265, tabled by the noble Baronesses, Lady Walmsley and Lady Sharp, relate to success measures and my answer to them is similar. We agree that Ofqual should establish specific success measures and report against them. We would expect Parliament, probably through the Select Committees, to insist on nothing less. Indeed, the chair of interim Ofqual, Kathleen Tattersall, stated in a letter to the Public Bill Committee in another place that she intends that Ofqual will do that. Amendments 266, 267 and 268A refer to how determinations under Clause 138 will need to be published. I appreciate what the noble Baroness is trying to say. If Ofqual were foolish enough not to report on them, Parliament would have something to say. The same might be said about Amendment 268A, which relates to reporting to Parliament about Ofqual’s functions. On Amendment 267, any further guidance given by the Secretary of State on fee capping or on anything else will be published, allowing Parliament to look to Ofqual to give its view. Briefly, on consulting on the plans, Amendment 269 risks being a bit prescriptive and going into too much detail about how Ofqual should go about its business. It is Parliament’s job to hold Ofqual to account on how effectively it plans but, again, I appreciate that Parliament will want to know how it goes about its business, and the communication between Ofqual and Parliament will be key. If the Bill puts into place lots of hoops for Ofqual to jump through, Ofqual will spend its time jumping through them and not necessarily planning, but I appreciate the importance of clear communication in planning. On the amendment in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Lucas, I caution that there is a difference between transparency and a white noise of information. There is a difficult balance to be struck, and it is important that public bodies get it absolutely right. If Ofqual spends its time publishing literally vast amounts of information, what is important may get lost in a deluge; so it may be possible to fulfil a publication requirement but not necessarily to communicate, and the effect might be to improve neither understanding nor confidence. The noble Baroness, Lady O’Neill, argued this point rather eloquently in her Reith lectures a few years ago, in which I was very interested. She argued that transparency can create its own problems if it results in, “a flood of unsorted information and misinformation that provides little but confusion”, although I appreciate that noble Lords do not expect something like that to happen. A key founding principle of these reforms is transparent decision-making rather than transparent information. We must be careful not to confuse the two, as these amendments would. In the light of what I have said, and bearing in mind the communication that we have already received from the interim Ofqual, I hope noble Lords will consider not pressing their amendments.
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- Baroness WalmsleyLiberal Democrat
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- My Lords, I am most grateful to the Minister for her reply. She is right that I do not really expect her to accept these amendments, which are probing. I am aware, of course, that the chair of Ofqual will be listening and taking note of our debates in this Committee about her powers and duties. My intention was to highlight the sorts of things that we expect to hear in reports from Ofqual and the sort of accountability and transparency that Parliament expects. The Minister asks that we trust Parliament. To a very great extent, I do, but it has to be said that, today, Ministers have struck a blow against the powers of Parliament. The very first time that the Select Committee has tried to use its power to have a confirmation hearing about a public appointment, the Secretary of State has totally ignored it; so the Minister cannot be surprised when we seek to put into legislation what we might otherwise have expected Parliament to be able to deal with. However, unless the Minister wishes to make another comment, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.
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- Lord LucasConservative
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- I should be grateful for a brief illustration of how the Government expect Ofqual to use this clause. In practice, what sort of qualifications will become victim of this clause and what sort will avoid it?
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Baroness Morgan of DrefelinLabour- Quote
- I shall do my best to give the noble Lord some comfort and I will await inspiration, should that come too. Ofqual will be a risk-based regulator, which will intervene only where it judges it necessary to do so to achieve its objectives. If Ofqual is confident that a recognised awarding body can be trusted to develop qualifications without them being checked individually, it can regulate on that basis. Therefore, qualifications run by those awarding bodies would not need to be individually checked by Ofqual. It will then rely on its ongoing monitoring to ensure that standards are up to scratch, which is a major change, of which I believe that the noble Lord is aware, from the current regime under which every qualification must be checked individually. It will go from an individual qualification check to an organisational check, which is why we are saying that it will be more light touch. However, Ofqual still has the discretion to insist on accreditation for a qualification if it decides that that is necessary. If an accreditation requirement is imposed, it means that, for example, a new qualification has to be checked or accredited before it can be awarded. This is a crucial power for Ofqual to impose extra quality control when this is needed to protect standards. For example, Ofqual could require that all A-levels are subject to the accreditation requirement, given the detailed requirements that A-levels have to meet. It could also require that all IT qualifications from “Fictional Award Body Limited” are subject to the accreditation requirement—perhaps because it had picked up concerns about the body’s IT qualifications or just because it was a new market. This clause provides for Ofqual to decide when a qualification needs to be accredited. It also builds in consultation requirements, procedures that Ofqual must follow, before it can insist on accreditation. It is a necessary part of a necessary power. I hope that with that explanation, the noble Lord will be satisfied.
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- Lord LucasConservative
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- I am grateful for that explanation. I am sorry if the noble Baroness did not know that this was coming. I see that she is nodding to indicate that she did know. In other words, she expects the power to be used rarely and cannot think of any qualifications to which it will apply at the moment. With that I am content.
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- Lord LucasConservative
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- I have a couple of brief questions on this clause. First, how are guided learning hours to be policed? It is all very well to have this number sitting there, but as the noble Baroness will remember, one successful state school has been pioneering GCSEs in a term and successfully getting the qualification based on apparently a much reduced number of learning hours. Is the number of guided learning hours to be enforced or applied in schools, and if not, what is the point of them? Secondly, what is subsection (12) all about?
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- 15:30
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- Baroness Morgan of DrefelinLabour
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- I shall respond briefly to the noble Lord’s question about guided learning hours. I would expect schools, colleges and providers of courses of study leading to a qualification to ensure that the guided study hours are fulfilled. On the appropriate number of hours to be attached to a given qualification, I see the decision on that as very much part of the role of Ofqual. Indeed, I expect that to be a key contribution for it to make. Subsection (12) means that Ofqual does not need to apply guided learning hours to the award of credits simply because credits are combined to make full qualifications, and for these purposes it is full qualifications that we are interested in. I assume that the “we” refers to Ofqual. It may be helpful if I write to the noble Lord further on this if I have not given him the clarification he is looking for.
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- Lord LucasConservative
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- I thank the Minister. A letter would be very helpful.
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- Lord LucasConservative
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- I want to ask a question about the powers of the appeal tribunal that is to be set up under subsection (8) covering the arrangements for a review. Is this to be an internal review or something that will have a degree of independence about it?
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- Baroness Morgan of DrefelinLabour
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- I thank the noble Lord for that question, which gives me an opportunity to put my remarks on the record. The noble Lord asked particularly about subsection (8). It requires Ofqual to put in place review arrangements of any decision to withdraw recognition, which is obviously a key part of the regulator’s role. More detail about those arrangements is set out in subsection (9). Like any regulator, Ofqual needs to have a range of sanctions and powers to allow it to step in and nip problems in the bud. We hope that Ofqual will not have to use these powers very often but it is crucial that they are there if needed. As I am sure noble Lords will agree, Ofqual must not be a toothless tiger. The Bill provides a number of sanctioning powers to enable Ofqual to act in a proportionate way to safeguard standards and protect the learner. The ultimate sanction must be available to Ofqual, even though it would hope never or rarely to use it: that power is to withdraw from a body recognition to award some or all qualifications so that those qualifications are no longer regulated. Clause 146 makes it explicit that Ofqual has the power to make such a sanction and, at the same time, ensures that it can be used only in limited circumstances and that there are effective checks on that power so that it can be used only when circumstances demand it. What are those limited circumstances? The power can be used only where the body has breached a condition of recognition and that breach is prejudicial. What are the safeguards? The clause sets out the steps that Ofqual must take before withdrawing recognition, including giving notice of its intention to do so, setting out the reasons for taking such action and taking account of any representations from the awarding body; that must be key. Ofqual must make arrangements for review of withdrawal decisions where requested to do so by the awarding body. My note does not say whether that is an external arrangement, but the fact that Ofqual must make the arrangements suggests that they are in Ofqual’s gift. Finally, if qualifications are coming off the market, we need to ensure that existing learners are protected, as noble Lords would expect. I am advised that the appeal could be either external or internal, which suggests to me that the noble Lord would like to have a letter clarifying this with perhaps more certainty.
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- Lord LucasConservative
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- My Lords, I am grateful for that explanation. Yes, I would like a letter. Certainly if it is an entirely internal matter, I would wish, perhaps, to bring it back on Report.
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