3rd reading in the Lords
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The Attorney-General (Lord Goldsmith)Labour- Quote
- moved Amendment No. 1:
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Lord Lester of Herne HillNon-affiliated- Quote
- My Lords, as the noble and learned Lord the Attorney-General indicated, I put my name to the amendment. I would like first to say how grateful I am to him for having seen me, among others, to discuss the reasons for it. The Joint Committee on Human Rights, on which I serve, will, I am sure, be very glad that the matter has been clarified in this way. I entirely agree with what he has said about the need to avoid opportunistic judicial reviews going into the merits of the kind of cases that he describes. I welcomed the fact that in Grand Committee the noble and learned Lord said—and I am not sure that one knew about this before—that he would not have approved of an ouster clause of the kind that was to be found in the Asylum and Immigration Bill. I am sure that that approach shows a proper respect for the rule of law. Like him, we believe that the courts of Northern Ireland have exercised their discretion in this and other areas admirably well. The advantage of the amendment is that it makes it quite clear that judicial review will be exceptional but will be fully available in cases involving not only dishonesty or bad faith. The reference to “exceptional circumstances” includes, as indeed one would expect, cases where there is a lack of jurisdiction or other significant error of law. For that reason, I very much support the amendment, and I am sure that the noble and learned Lord is right to say that there will be widespread support for it.
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Lord GlentoranConservative- Quote
- My Lords, I, too, thank the noble and learned Lord the Attorney-General for bringing forward the amendment. The fact that the amendment has come before us at Third Reading of this fairly short Bill is a reflection of the thought, the work and the debate and discussion in this Chamber and, very much more so perhaps, outside. The noble Lord, Lord Lester, the noble and learned Lord the Attorney-General, colleagues and I started from three very disparate points but with one objective. Human evidence is still the most essential part in securing convictions against serious criminals in Northern Ireland, but we must have a judicial process that allows juries to be protected and the PSNI to bring intelligent sources into court to give evidence. At the same time, we must be able to protect those sources and those who work consistently in dangerous areas for the cause of justice within the judicial processes and the criminal research set-ups in Northern Ireland. I am quite happy. I am not a world expert on human rights by any means, but the noble and learned Lord the Attorney-General and the noble Lord, Lord Lester, certainly are. I am content that we have the best arrangement that we can have. It has taken considerable time on everybody’s part to get here. A great deal of brain power and thought has been put into it and, although the amendment is only about half a line, it is significant. I support the amendment. On Question, amendment agreed to.
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Lord TrimbleConservative- Quote
- moved Amendment No. 2:
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- Lord GlentoranConservative
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- My Lords, I support the amendment. The issue of community-based restorative justice systems is a long-running concern of my party. If Her Majesty’s Government can accept the amendment of the noble Lord, Lord Trimble, to which I have attached my name, as have the noble Lords, Lord Smith of Clifton and Lord Lester, that would put our minds considerably more at ease. The noble Lord, Lord Trimble, pointed out that there is a long way to go yet, but these are new schemes and systems and we shall have to monitor them carefully. Can the Minister give us an idea of what schemes are waiting to go through the protocol to be accepted by the Government? That would be interesting to know. If he can find a way to accept the amendment, that will be a wonderful finish to the Bill.
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- 15:45
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- Lord Lester of Herne HillNon-affiliated
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- My Lords, this is my first opportunity to congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Trimble, on his membership of Her Majesty’s Official Opposition. I supported him in previous debates on the issue and am glad to add my name to the amendment. The key question is: what will best protect and strengthen community justice and the rule of law? The fact that the schemes are voluntary, community-based and address low-level criminal activity does not change the powerful influence that they will have on communities and the public role they undertake. That is especially relevant in the context of Northern Ireland, where, as the noble Lord, Lord Rooker, himself noted, the threat of instability and potential for paramilitary involvement is very real. The Government acknowledged that community-based restorative justice schemes should not be allowed to devolve into autonomous policing units. However, their view is that the NIO’s protocol provides sufficient safeguards against abuse. We disagree, which is why we seek a statutory safeguard of a modest kind. The type of intermediary role played by these schemes constitutes a public activity that ought to be seen to be fair and impartial. Anything less threatens to compromise the justice that the community seeks to achieve. The regulation of community-based restorative justice schemes is not a symptom of suspicion, nor do I ignore the contribution of the NIO protocol. Rather, the amendment moved by the noble Lord, Lord Trimble, will ensure that the rule of law is not undermined and that the schemes are born of and exist subject to the rule of law. The noble Lord, Lord Rooker, has previously expressed concern that the work of the schemes, which engages the statutory sector, is limited to mediating, reparative interventions between the perpetrators and the victims of low-level crime in the local community. Even if, as he suggests, such work forms a small proportion of a scheme’s activities, it must still be subject to the rule of law and protected against the abuse of power. The rule of law requires that these schemes are grounded in a legal basis, so that they do not suffer from the vice of informality with all the dangers that that implies. Although the NIO protocol may give guidance, it is not a statutory instrument. The amendment injects legal certainty into this area without falling into the trap of legalism or excessive regulation. It prescribes that accredited community-based restorative justice schemes are subject to inspection by the Criminal Justice Inspectorate, as he explained. Where the inspectorate deems it fit, it may recommend to the Secretary of state that the scheme be removed from the public register. The rule of law also requires that there are prescribed criteria for the scheme, so that this form of justice is administered independently and impartially. That is the bare minimum one would want of any public service, whether it is exercised by government or community-based schemes. That applies even more in the divisive atmosphere from which Northern Ireland is emerging. Obliging the Secretary of State to maintain a public register of accredited schemes would ensure that they operate according to the principles of fairness and transparency required of any body addressing crime, even so-called low level offences. There must be adequate safeguards against abuse of the procedures. Whether a republican, unionist or any other political interest group is involved and whatever their associations in the past, those principles transcend party and community. They apply now with particular force in Northern Ireland, which has moved from a period of the grave undermining of the rule of law to what we hope will be a healthy democracy, based on the rule of law. It should not be left to members of the public to complain about lawlessness within the schemes, as suggested by the Minister in previous discussions; lawlessness should be prevented from the outset. The rule of law requires that of all bodies exercising a public function. It is particularly relevant in a society where paramilitaries continue to have an influence. The structures of the rule of law exist precisely to prevent the type of intimidation and coercion that the noble Lord, Lord Trimble, has described in previous debates. The amendment puts in place a bare minimum of safeguards. We need to look realistically at the practical consequences of omitting these safeguards, which include the undermining of justice, the inculcation of fear and the perpetuation of instability. I submit that community-based restorative justice schemes should complement law enforcement and not turn into alternative and non-accountable systems of justice. Unless the role of such schemes is formalised and their activities subjected to public scrutiny, there is a real risk that community-based restorative justice schemes will undermine the rule of law. I very much hope that the Minister will be able to accept this important amendment.
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Lord HyltonCrossbench- Quote
- My Lords, in recent years, I have spent a certain amount of time meeting and discussing their activities with those running community-based restorative justice on both sides of the divide in Belfast. It seems to me that they have had some success in reducing the incidence of punishment beatings, which we all know have taken place and may still be taking place. The noble Lord, Lord Lester of Herne Hill, mentioned informality. I should have thought that was a good thing when dealing with anti-social behaviour. I also recall that the learned judge from Scotland, who reviewed the whole of the criminal justice system in Northern Ireland, came down firmly in favour of restorative justice generally. He was also prepared to accept the continued existence of community-based restorative justice. I recall that the Independent Monitoring Commission, of which the noble Lord, Lord Alderdice, has been a distinguished member, considered the matter and, on the whole, gave it a clean bill of health. I ask the Government, first, what is supposed to happen if the NIO guidelines are breached, and, secondly, is the amendment really necessary?
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Lord RookerLabour- Quote
- My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord for bringing back his amendment at this stage. It shows the justification of your Lordships’ procedures and that on Third Reading we can make amendments to Bills, having had good debates at each stage. The noble Lord said that he amended his amendment to meet government policy. That being the case, on behalf of the Government, I am happy to recommend to the House that the amendment be accepted. I agree with every single word of the noble Lord, Lord Lester of Herne Hill. Contrary to what the noble Lord, Lord Hylton, said, I took the reference to informality to be the informality used by the paramilitaries in their “Nudge, nudge, wink, wink, we are in charge and you can't do anything about it” form of formality, which we do not like. This is designed to stamp that out. We are satisfied with the present protocol. Our present understanding is that it appears to work. There are 16 community-based restorative justice schemes in Northern Ireland; 14 of those are actively in the process of seeking accreditation. There are two minor schemes—minor only in the sense of the number of cases they deal with, which is a handful—and they have not yet expressed interest in seeking accreditation. They have a very low volume of cases. We would welcome all such schemes coming forward to seek accreditation. The four Northern Ireland alternatives schemes, as I believe they are known, have expressed an interest in accreditation. The Chief Inspector of Criminal Justice has now inspected each of those schemes and concluded that there are no obstacles to the schemes proceeding to the second stage of accreditation. That has to take place and involves the suitability panel looking at the individual participants. The 10 other community-based restorative justice Ireland schemes have expressed an interest in seeking accreditation and the Chief Inspector of Criminal Justice is preparing to inspect each of those. By and large, that is a big step forward from the past situation. In some ways, I do not make any claims about this—the informality of the protocol and the consultation on it have assisted people to have the confidence to put their feet in the water. Parliament is right to put the principles of the protocol in the provision. That is what the amendment basically contains. There are two “shalls” and two “mays” in the four sub-paragraphs, so it is important that this is not locked down over-rigidly. However, it makes the central point that Parliament wants it to. I have to say in respect of all amendments that have not been drafted by parliamentary counsel, who naturally run the rule over these few words to make sure that the commas are in the right place, that if any textual amendments need to be done in the other place, naturally we will consult with the noble Lord, Lord Trimble. In answer to the noble Lord, Lord Hilton’s question about the breach, schemes that do not meet the protocol’s full requirements will be de-accredited and receive no assistance from the statutory sector. In other words, no money comes from these schemes but, once accredited, they can apply to other bona fide organisations. However, no such organisation would be funding any de-accredited scheme. That is the ultimate sanction. On that basis, and given that this proposal has received good will throughout although it was not added to the Bill, it is another good example of your Lordships’ procedures. We have been able to send our goodwill at this stage, with an important process taking place in Northern Ireland, through our unanimous acceptance of this amendment.
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- Lord TrimbleConservative
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- My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Rooker, for his comments and acceptance of this new clause. I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Lester, that this is a significant step forward to providing a legal underpinning of this provision and trying to do it in such a way that it will not hamper the inspectorate or unduly hamper those who are operating the scheme. I am delighted with this step forward and would like to thank the noble Lord once again. Regarding textual amendments, after looking at my draft again, I have one in my mind already; others will no doubt occur to noble Lords. I will be happy to see the clause being refined in the way that the noble Lord mentioned. On Question, amendment agreed to.
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- Lord RookerLabour
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- My Lords, I beg to move that this Bill do now pass. Moved accordingly, and on Question, Bill passed, and returned to the Commons with amendments.
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